Tuesday, September 9, 2014

Man is NOT a ROBOT or a PUPPET but is Biblically described as a CLAY.

Man is NOT a ROBOT or a PUPPET but is Biblically described as a CLAY.

June 22, 2009 at 10:12pm

1. Acts.16.14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.
2. 1 Sam. 10:9 “Then it happened when he turned his back to leave Samuel, God changed his heart; and all those signs came about on that day.”


3. 2. Rom 9:18-21 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. 19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?


4. Jeremiah 1:4-5 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
5. Psalm 139:1-6 O LORD, you have searched me and you know me. 2 You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. 3 You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways. 4 Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD. 5 You hem me in—behind and before; you have laid your hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain.
6. Psalms 139:16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.


7. Proverbs 16:1 The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.
8. Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
9. Proverbs 16:9 The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
10. Proverbs 19:21 Many plans are in a man's heart, But the counsel of the LORD will stand.
11. Proverbs 20:24 Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?
12. Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.
13. Jeremiah 10:23 I know, O LORD, that a man's way is not in himself, Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.
14. Lamentations 3:37 Who is there who speaks and it comes to pass, Unless the Lord has commanded it?


15. Isaiah 63:17 Why, O LORD, do you make us wander from your ways and harden our hearts so we do not revere you? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes that are your inheritance.
16. Gen 20:6 Then God said to him in the dream, "Yes, I know that in the integrity of your heart you have done this, and I also kept you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.
17. Gen. 45:7-8 7 But God sent me ahead of you to preserve for you a remnant on earth and to save your lives by a great deliverance. 8 “Now, therefore, it was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh and lord of all his household and ruler over all the land of Egypt.” – (Joseph in Egypt – His brothers, therefore, were not free to kill Joseph)
18. Gen 50:20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.
19. Exodus 4:11 The LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?
20. Exodus 4:21 "And the Lord said to Moses, 'When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."
21. 1 Sam 2:22-25 Now Eli was very old; and he heard all that his sons were doing to all Israel, and how they lay with the women who served at the doorway of the tent of meeting. 23He said to them, "Why do you do such things, the evil things that I hear from all these people? 24"No, my sons; for the report is not good which I hear the LORD'S people circulating. 25"If one man sins against another, God will mediate for him; but if a man sins against the LORD, who can intercede for him?" But they would not listen to the voice of their father, for the LORD desired to put them to death.
22. Judges 14:1-4 1Then Samson went down to Timnah and saw a woman in Timnah, one of the daughters of the Philistines. 2So he came back and told his father and mother, "I saw a woman in Timnah, one of the daughters of the Philistines; now therefore, get her for me as a wife." 3Then his father and his mother said to him, "Is there no woman among the daughters of your relatives, or among all our people, that you go to take a wife from the uncircumcised Philistines?" But Samson said to his father, "Get her for me, for she looks good to me." 4However, his father and mother did not know that it was of the LORD, for He was seeking an occasion against the Philistines. Now at that time the Philistines were ruling over Israel.
23. Matt 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
24. Matt 13:11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
25. Mark 4:11-12 "And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God; but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12in order that while seeing, they may see and not perceive; and while hearing, they may hear and not understand lest they return and be forgiven."
26. John 1:12-13 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
27. Acts 2:22-23 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
28. Acts 4:25-28 "who by the mouth of Your servant David have said: 'Why did the nations rage, And the people plot vain things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand, And the rulers were gathered together Against the LORD and against His Christ.' 27 "For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 "to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.
29. Rom. 11:8 "just as it is written, 'God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes to see not and ears to hear not, down to this very day.'"
30. 2 Thess. 2:11 "And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false."
31. Psalm 140.8 Grant not, O Lord, the desires of the wicked; do not further their evil plot or they will be exalted! Selah'' It is God Who grants or denies the desires of the wicked.
32. Gen 24:21 Meanwhile, the man was gazing at her in silence, to know whether the LORD had made his journey successful or not.
33. Gen 39:3 Now his master saw that the LORD was with him and how the LORD caused all that he did to prosper in his hand.
34. Gen 39:23 The chief jailer did not supervise anything under Joseph's charge because the LORD was with him; and whatever he did, the LORD made to prosper.
35. Isaiah 6:10 "Render the hearts of this people insensitive, their ears dull, and their eyes dim, lest they see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and return and be healed."
36. Isaiah 14:24, 26-27 The LORD of hosts has sworn saying, "Surely, just as I have intended so it has happened, and just as I have planned so it will stand, 26"This is the plan devised against the whole earth; and this is the hand that is stretched out against all the nations.27"For the LORD of hosts has planned, and who can frustrate it? And as for His stretched-out hand, who can turn it back?"
37. Isaiah 43:13 "Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?"
38. 2 Chron. 25:20 "But Amaziah would not listen, for it was from God, that He might deliver them into the hand of Joash because they had sought the gods of Edom."


39. Psalm 33:8-10 Let all the earth fear the LORD; Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. 9 For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast. 10 The LORD nullifies the counsel of the nations; He frustrates the plans of the peoples.
40. Psalm 119:89-91 Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven. 90Your faithfulness continues throughout all generations; You established the earth, and it stands. 91They stand this day according to Your ordinances, For all things are Your servants.
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  • Chang Yuon and Michele Oney Snyder like this.
  • Michele Oney Snyder I always like the stuff you put on here.
    You da man!
  • Andrew Rails This is deep stuff! I remember talking about this back in San Fran, and it still baffles me.
  • Mike Boswell Most of the Scriptures you have listed have nothing to do with predestination as it has been preached by you and others. Again, you need to be careful of reading your doctrine into the Scripture. There are certain circumstances that show that God directs certain men's hearts to make specific decisions, but those specific instances still do not support the Calvinistic point of view. There are more Scriptures that refute Calvin's view than there are that support it. God leads us, it's up to us to follow. That's very Scriptural. Otherwise, you have to say that God makes men sin. Scripture says that God does not even tempt man. So, how could He make man sin...unless He gave man a choice?

    God can know in advance what we will choose, but His foreknowledge does not mean that He has predestined those decisions. I can "know" what decision my son or daughter will make in certain instances, but my foreknowledge doesn't mean that I have had anything to do with ordaining them to do it.
  • Mike Boswell Okay, here are some Scriptures that (just a few of the many) that verify that man has a free will. These verse either show man choosing (not God choosing, but man), having made a choice, or an instruction to choose.
    "Then CHOOSE for YOURSELVES this da
    y whom YOU WILL (not God will or God would will you to) serve." - Josh 24:15
    "I have chose the way of truth; I have set my heart on your laws." - Psalm 119:30 - The Psalmist chose, not God. Neither did God choose for him.
    "Be shepherds of God's flock...not because you must, but because you are WILLING, as God wants you to be..." - 1 Peter 5:2. Why would the instruction be given if it were not possible to choose or set one's will in accordance with God's desires?
    "If anyone CHOOSES to do God's will..." - John 7:17. Notice the "if" clause which denotes a possibility for either/or.
    "...when the people WILLINGLY offer themselves, praise the Lord!" - Judges 5:2
  • Mike Boswell A few more:
    "...if you do not set your heart (choose) to honor my name..." - Malachi 2:2. There is a choice to set one's heart.
    "May the Lord, who is good, pardon everyone who sets his heart on seeking God..." - 2 Chronicles 30:18-19. God isn't doing
     the heart setting. The people are because they have been given the ability.
    "If anyone sets his heart (chooses to) on being an overseer..." - 1 Timothy 3:1. Notice the "if" clause again.
    There are so many verses and stories throughout all of Scripture that give overwhelming evidence that God has given man free will to choose. There is much more Scriptural evidence set against Calvinistic doctrine than for it. The only reason you or others may disagree is because of a CHOICE to interpret all of Scripture through the lense of a few Scriptures that support your doctrine.
  • Chang Yuon Mike, the assumption you are bringing to the text is this: If God commands something, man is--in of himself--able to do it. 

    The debate was never about whether God gives man a choice or whether man ever make choices...the debate is over man's ability

    Romans 9:16: "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy." 

    You keep saying Calvinism is saying this or that...but all Calvinists here seem to be pointing you to scripture. Please deal with the text.
  • Mike Boswell I am dealing with the text, Chang. The problem is that Calvinism misinterprets much of the text. In regards to Romans 9:16 - look at the text. Paul is speaking of God's covenant with the nation of Israel. He's not making a generalization that decrees Calvinism to all creation. Paul is making the argument that God isn't finished with His redemptive plan for Israel - and that it's not because of Israel's goodness or even choice in the matter. It's about God's faithfulness to His covenant. That's the text. But, Calvinism tries to make it say something it's not saying.
  • Andrew Rails In regards to man's ability: 

    Philipians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

    God gives man the ability to do good, and without the sacrifice that Jesus made we would never be able to accomplish the tings that God asks of us. I think everyone can agree on that.

    As far as predestination goes, I don't think we could ever find a sure answer, as we are not God, and cannot even begin to imagine His mind! But I do know that, whether He controls us or not, He gives us the chance to show our faith through works, as is written in James 2.

    I, personally, agree with mike in that the decision to do those things is usually up to us. However, I also believe that God will fulfill what is in His mind, regardless of what man says about it. He is Almighty after all.
  • Mike Boswell Well put Andrew! It's been a good discussion and I think you summed it up well.
  • Chang Yuon Andrew, thank you for your perspective. 

    I'd agree with the statement "God gives man the ability to do good." I'd just go on to say "good" also includes faith and repentance. God sovereignly grants both. So if we agree with your statement, then we onl
    ...See More
  • Jerry William Bowers Jr Sovereignty/Freewill conversation? GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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